<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Unsympathetic</title>
	<atom:link href="http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/</link>
	<description></description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 28 Apr 2009 13:45:35 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/comment-page-1/#comment-358</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 07:46:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/#comment-358</guid>
		<description>True. I don&#039;t see how Jefferson Parish thinks they&#039;ll get by without people who&#039;ll work at Wendy&#039;s and whatnot. Or the BGR thinks NOLA can find anyone to work at various cheap nick-knack stands, etc.

Oh, and wanted to point out one thing: Duany is preoccupied with housing because he&#039;s an architect. He&#039;s not a real social scientist. He just plays one at various &quot;charettes.&quot; (And I say that even though I like some of his stuff, paid a special visit to Seaside years ago, etc.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>True. I don&#8217;t see how Jefferson Parish thinks they&#8217;ll get by without people who&#8217;ll work at Wendy&#8217;s and whatnot. Or the BGR thinks NOLA can find anyone to work at various cheap nick-knack stands, etc.</p>
<p>Oh, and wanted to point out one thing: Duany is preoccupied with housing because he&#8217;s an architect. He&#8217;s not a real social scientist. He just plays one at various &#8220;charettes.&#8221; (And I say that even though I like some of his stuff, paid a special visit to Seaside years ago, etc.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: becky</title>
		<link>http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/comment-page-1/#comment-356</link>
		<dc:creator>becky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 04:48:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/#comment-356</guid>
		<description>Ray - I don&#039;t think advocates of mixed-income housing are &lt;em&gt;always&lt;/em&gt; acting in bad faith, although I&#039;ve seen some real howlers, notably the St. Thomas redevelopment. From what I&#039;ve been reading, it seems most true that &lt;a href=&quot;http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/urban/Mixed-Income%20Development%20and%20Urban%20Poverty.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;policy implementation has gotten well ahead of conceptual clarity and empirical justification&lt;/a&gt;.&quot; And as you&#039;ve pointed out, there are a lot of other sketchy hypotheses like &quot;broken windows&quot; that get more credit than they&#039;re due. There may be particular features of particular programs that produce real improvements, and those should be examined closely and compared to mixed income programs that don&#039;t have much positive effect. One of the things that bother me most about the stance the BGR report takes is the implication that mixed-income is a well-established success, and even has an officially agreed-upon ideal ratio of incomes.

I agree with you very much that social networks are critical, especially bridging networks that are mutually isolated. But in what I&#039;ve read lately, I keep finding that mere geographic proximity in mixed-income developments doesn&#039;t accomplish that nearly as well as expected, if at all.

Most of all though, my concern is that we have a major housing shortage right now, and waiting longer and spending more to design and build mixed-income developments just exacerbates that problem without any promise that it will be worth the wait for anyone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ray &#8211; I don&#8217;t think advocates of mixed-income housing are <em>always</em> acting in bad faith, although I&#8217;ve seen some real howlers, notably the St. Thomas redevelopment. From what I&#8217;ve been reading, it seems most true that <a href="http://cas.uchicago.edu/workshops/urban/Mixed-Income%20Development%20and%20Urban%20Poverty.pdf" rel="nofollow">policy implementation has gotten well ahead of conceptual clarity and empirical justification</a>.&#8221; And as you&#8217;ve pointed out, there are a lot of other sketchy hypotheses like &#8220;broken windows&#8221; that get more credit than they&#8217;re due. There may be particular features of particular programs that produce real improvements, and those should be examined closely and compared to mixed income programs that don&#8217;t have much positive effect. One of the things that bother me most about the stance the BGR report takes is the implication that mixed-income is a well-established success, and even has an officially agreed-upon ideal ratio of incomes.</p>
<p>I agree with you very much that social networks are critical, especially bridging networks that are mutually isolated. But in what I&#8217;ve read lately, I keep finding that mere geographic proximity in mixed-income developments doesn&#8217;t accomplish that nearly as well as expected, if at all.</p>
<p>Most of all though, my concern is that we have a major housing shortage right now, and waiting longer and spending more to design and build mixed-income developments just exacerbates that problem without any promise that it will be worth the wait for anyone.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/comment-page-1/#comment-354</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Oct 2006 00:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/#comment-354</guid>
		<description>Oh and, of course, Jefferson Parish doesn&#039;t want those lower-income people, according to the Times-Pic, especially not ones from New Orleans. Heavens no. Not in my backyard!!

Now, as the report suggests, investments in education, worker training, substance absuse, etc., are all needed to fight poverty as well. But aren&#039;t the public housing developments as they stand just a more noticeable example of how little our society actually cares about lower-income people? A physical manifestation of the non-working status quo?

Would trying something else in addition to providing more education, job training, etc., be such a bad idea? I really don&#039;t think things can change much, even with investment in all the above, however, until there is some sort of communication and cooperation between social networks in lower-income neighborhoods and other parts of a city or metro area. But how do you best accomplish that? People in, say, Lakeview or Jefferson Parish have no incentive to care about the fate of lower-income areas, outside of crime bleeding past their borders. But lower-income areas can&#039;t be little islands off to themselves and thrive, I don&#039;t think, or at least not islands with no consistent communication with and resources from networks and institutions outside the borders. They&#039;re not &quot;closed systems,&quot; as someone described Lakeview as being at Sat.&#039;s meeting (and this person was wrong to think even that).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh and, of course, Jefferson Parish doesn&#8217;t want those lower-income people, according to the Times-Pic, especially not ones from New Orleans. Heavens no. Not in my backyard!!</p>
<p>Now, as the report suggests, investments in education, worker training, substance absuse, etc., are all needed to fight poverty as well. But aren&#8217;t the public housing developments as they stand just a more noticeable example of how little our society actually cares about lower-income people? A physical manifestation of the non-working status quo?</p>
<p>Would trying something else in addition to providing more education, job training, etc., be such a bad idea? I really don&#8217;t think things can change much, even with investment in all the above, however, until there is some sort of communication and cooperation between social networks in lower-income neighborhoods and other parts of a city or metro area. But how do you best accomplish that? People in, say, Lakeview or Jefferson Parish have no incentive to care about the fate of lower-income areas, outside of crime bleeding past their borders. But lower-income areas can&#8217;t be little islands off to themselves and thrive, I don&#8217;t think, or at least not islands with no consistent communication with and resources from networks and institutions outside the borders. They&#8217;re not &#8220;closed systems,&#8221; as someone described Lakeview as being at Sat.&#8217;s meeting (and this person was wrong to think even that).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/comment-page-1/#comment-353</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Oct 2006 23:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://beckyhoutman.com/2006/10/20/unsympathetic/#comment-353</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if I&#039;d suggest that advocates of mixed-income housing are acting in bad faith, necessarily. Where I think the &quot;mixed-income housing&quot; thing goes wrong is the idea that you destroy old neighborhoods, and create new mixed-income ones in their place, while not making older, wealthier &#039;hoods mixed-income. I don&#039;t see how the idea is worthy of scorn otherwise, or how the status quo pre-K was worthy of total preservation. (Someone told me you could just fix up the existing public housing developments, and everything would turn around, broken windows theory and all that. But evidence is certainly sketchy as regards the effect of physical improvements as well. Evidence is sketchy on public housing and crime especially, by the way. As much as everyone talks about it, you&#039;d think more would&#039;ve been done. But ... no!)

I went to the Lakeview area UNOP meeting on Saturday. Now, if many stores are opening around there, I presume they&#039;ll need some lower-income people to do the service jobs. But someone noted that if developers are allowed to buy property from the LRA or whoever and turn it into Section 8 housing, you might as well shoot the neighborhood, &#039;cause it&#039;ll already be close to death anyway. (Incidentally, it was one of only a smattering of African-American people in the crowed--among them people from Gentilly who had the wrong meeting--who said this.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if I&#8217;d suggest that advocates of mixed-income housing are acting in bad faith, necessarily. Where I think the &#8220;mixed-income housing&#8221; thing goes wrong is the idea that you destroy old neighborhoods, and create new mixed-income ones in their place, while not making older, wealthier &#8216;hoods mixed-income. I don&#8217;t see how the idea is worthy of scorn otherwise, or how the status quo pre-K was worthy of total preservation. (Someone told me you could just fix up the existing public housing developments, and everything would turn around, broken windows theory and all that. But evidence is certainly sketchy as regards the effect of physical improvements as well. Evidence is sketchy on public housing and crime especially, by the way. As much as everyone talks about it, you&#8217;d think more would&#8217;ve been done. But &#8230; no!)</p>
<p>I went to the Lakeview area UNOP meeting on Saturday. Now, if many stores are opening around there, I presume they&#8217;ll need some lower-income people to do the service jobs. But someone noted that if developers are allowed to buy property from the LRA or whoever and turn it into Section 8 housing, you might as well shoot the neighborhood, &#8217;cause it&#8217;ll already be close to death anyway. (Incidentally, it was one of only a smattering of African-American people in the crowed&#8211;among them people from Gentilly who had the wrong meeting&#8211;who said this.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
